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Post by Ed Hume on May 9, 2008 11:08:44 GMT -5
I am thinking this forum as it is currently structured is dying if not dead. Since the discussion is not indexed by search engines, there are essentially no new users. Only an insignificant number of people will bother to get a login because they find the DLS website. I get referral statistics from flickr on my posted photos. Everyday there are a few people who have searched for topics such as steam locomotives, CNC, machining, boilers, etc on google, or yahoo. Every now and then I will see a huge spike of referrals when an open discussion forum posts a URL to one of my photos. I have had more 200 visits from the German forum dampfbahnerforum (see for example, dampfbahner.net/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=3099) and close to 500 views from Make magazine's blog - blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/etched_hobby_train_signag.html) There have been fewer than 5 visits out of these forums since posting my append a few days ago, and less than 17 all time. As a single individual on flickr, I am getting about 300 views a day. This forum, has only about 20 people checking for new posts a day. If DLS wants to have successful forums, they need to be viewable by persons and search engines without a login. The closed BBS systems of the 90's do not cut it in the internet age. |
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Post by Harlock on May 9, 2008 12:52:41 GMT -5
I agree. There is no reason to not have it readable by the public, and posts allowed after sign up, like every other forum. I have done my best to steer Kozo builders towards this forum, and all the new members have come from direct references like that I think.
If we can't convince Jim or whoever has admin access to these forums to change the setting, we might all pick up and go to another place. Chaski is the most populous and most informative set of forums, and runs the best software (phpBB). I could perhaps ask the moderators if they are willing to create a Kozo builder's sub-forum like we have here.
There is also the Live Steam magazine forums ("The Steaming Bay") which has a small but very friendly camraderie, but the search function is perpetually broken and the software generally neglected.
I could also create a new forum site on my server, but forum software hacking is a big problem and I'd have to stay on top of the patches. If I did that, would someone want to help administer the forum? (approve new users mostly.)
In any case, if we can't get these forums changed, choice #1 is adding a sub-forum to chaski, choice #2 would be setting up a new phpBB install.
It would be nice to lobby Jim to fix these forums so that all our previous posts would survive. If we move away, everything up to this date would be eventually lost I'm afraid.
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Post by Ed Hume on May 9, 2008 14:37:48 GMT -5
I'm not advocating jumping ship unless the forum cannot be changed to make discussion public. We should have thousands of viewers a day instead of 20. Public discussion means you have to delete spam and spammers which means the owners either have to delegate administration or put in their own time. But making the discussion public is the only way you bring in new people and grow. Growth is a good worthwhile goal - it means more fun at steamups, more help at your club, more vendors of interesting stuff, more exhibitions/trade shows, and it means it is easy for you to sell your stuff and upgrade, and that your widow and kids can find buyers for your toys and library.
The Steaming Bay is not a viable forum for the same reasons. The owners don't delegate, and they have conflicts of interest between a successful, innovative forum and the magazine. It may become the virtual retirement home of the same people it has today. If you are not growing with the spread of the internet and social networking, you are dying. Chaski is a viable option. There are other good alternatives too. The 2 dozen people we have today on this forum could find themselves at home on flickr adding comments to each other's project photos and videos and having public discussions by belonging to the same Group. If you look at my contacts on Flickr you'll see a number of them are Live Steamers. So Mike you don't need to run your own forum when there are good alternatives that are better than forums at serving mixed media.
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Post by Harlock on May 9, 2008 20:58:13 GMT -5
Public discussion means you have to delete spam and spammers which means the owners either have to delegate administration or put in their own time. Actually, the way Chaski (and any other smart board) does it, the forums are publicly readable, but you have to sign up to post. And new sign ups have to be approved manually. So there's no spam, but someone has to approve new sign ups, that's all. Otherwise no manual moderation is needed unless a member is causing a problem, which is rare. And I agree about not jumping ship if at all possible, because we want to keep the heritage we have here. I am certain that it is a simple config switch to allow the proboard forums here to be 'public read' and 'member write'... |
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Post by Ed Hume on May 11, 2008 6:56:48 GMT -5
At your suggestion Mike, here is the e-mail I wrote Jim O'Connor instead of waiting for him to login:
Hi Jim,
Can you please login to the DLS forums and read the thread on the General discussion about closed forums? It is real short. In a nutshell Mike and I think that the forums are dying or dead simply because they are not indexed by search engines, so no new users come along. I know I joined after a search result.
Can we change it to be public readable, member writable? It is a good thing to have a discussion site for Kozo builders and worth saving. If you fear needing to lose time deleting spam and spammers, Mike has expressed willingness to help admin, and I am sure others would help too, myself included.
--
Regards,
Ed Hume
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Post by phutcheson on May 11, 2008 12:09:57 GMT -5
Agreed ... we need to keep this forum going. 
I am willing to help. 
Pat H.
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Post by waumbek09 on May 11, 2008 20:31:31 GMT -5
I'm pretty new at this but I agree completely with you guys. I check over here on the Kozo forum and don't see much action so generally ask questions over on Chaski. They've been very helpful but if we could keep a specifically smaller scale live steam forum more popular it would be terrific. Hit a snag with my A-3 tender axles for a bit but am now off to work again.
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Post by Ed Hume on May 15, 2008 10:01:30 GMT -5
I am happy to tell you that Jim O'Connor added Harlock and I as admins, and the forums have been changed to allow read access without logging in. We may need to add more admins to stay on top of deleting spammers masquerading as hobbyists.
By the way, spam would end within a few days using my plan. Spam succeeds because they send out millions of e-mails and posts, and only a few suckers reply. What if everyone replied, and tied up the "businesses" underneath with all kinds of questions that sounded legit? Now the businesses that use spammers are paying for thousands or millions of referrals, and they cannot find the few suckers from the thousands or millions of replies that are asking about delivery, or payment options, or submitted orders with bad credit card numbers,.... We need leaders of every country to step forward and tell people that starting on January 1, 2009 it is everyone's duty to reply with legitimate sounding inquiries to every spam post and e-mail.
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Post by phutcheson on May 15, 2008 11:21:02 GMT -5
Outstanding .... good job.
Now we need a very BIG link from the discover live steam main site and others to here. 
When the time comes let me know and I will help.
Pat H
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Post by Harlock on May 15, 2008 14:54:20 GMT -5
We have changed it so the board is readable by world, but you can only post if you are a registered user. To register, there are a number of hoops to jump through that should keep most spammers out. If a problem arises, we have the option of switching to manual verification of new-user signups.
We will play it by ear and adjust accordingly.
Whee!
--Mike
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Post by GoldenSpike53 on May 16, 2008 16:10:29 GMT -5
So are they going to add a link to this forum on the Discover Live Steam home page?
Dale
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Post by Harlock on May 16, 2008 19:07:24 GMT -5
We need to all petition him for that, yes. Under the "resources" tab on the left is where it should be. |
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Post by prrfan on Jul 29, 2008 1:51:53 GMT -5
I've never bothered getting signed up on a closed forum,but this one looks nice.
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