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Post by leeharrysouth on Sept 10, 2009 16:21:20 GMT -5
Hi all. I am new to this forum and hope for help in general model building. I am a fair hand at machinine work but lack general model building experiance in things such as soldiring, joining and manufacture of engine parts. I have been told that Mr. Kozo's books are a great place to get these necessary tips. I am into IC and steam so my main question is which of his books offers the most technicaly for the new model builder. Or for that matter any other book that will help. Could it be the New Shey publication.
Thanks leeharrysouth
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Post by whitey on Sept 10, 2009 17:40:31 GMT -5
Lee ?. I am a new novice here also.And have purchased 3 of his books the A3, Shay and the new Shay. And each book. Shows and explains how to do the parts for that Train. Plus many extra things like how to solder etc,etc, Well wort the money IMO. Whitey
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Post by Harlock on Sept 10, 2009 18:20:45 GMT -5
The A3 book was specifically written for beginners, and I am following the book as a beginner. In the beginning for example, he is very thorough about describing the minute details about how to machine the tender wheels. As you progress, he does not repeat things you have already learned so it is fairly efficient. A couple of things to note: I still found it immensely useful to have a machinist mentor who could help me with questions I still had about basic machining, as well as some basic machining books (Machine Shop Practice by Moltrecht for example). He also helped me choose the right tooling, knowing what I could skimp on and what I wanted to buy name brand on. The latter being an 'investment' as it would save re-buying later and broken tooling. Kozo assumes very basic machinery and does not show the use of lathe collets, quick change tool posts and other modern inventions. I have already used several techniques to manufacture some of the parts that are not mentioned in the book. These are a time saving and convenience thing and not necessary to complete the engine. As other members of this forum who have completed or largely completed the A3 are fond of saying, if you follow Kozo's directions you can't go wrong, you'll have a beautiful, working engine at the end of the day. I chose the A3 book because of its marketing specifically at beginners, and to pick the simplest project possible so that I would not be as daunted or discouraged by its length or complexity. But I also long ago stopped flipping through the pages, and I just stay on the chapter I am at until I'm done. One day at a time. I have only glanced at the New Shay book so I can't really comment on that one. --Mike
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Post by daveb1 on Sept 11, 2009 9:52:42 GMT -5
Lee, I started to build the new shay last December with no machining experience. I bought the first shay book and the new shay book. The new shay is much the better of the two for someone just begining. There is a good section in the first book on silver soldering. So far I have completed the frame and the wheels. Learned a lot about machining and soldering. Building the trucks now. I'm working like Mike, one chapter at a time. This site has been great to answer questions. I really enjoy my new career.
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Post by leeharrysouth on Sept 11, 2009 11:30:03 GMT -5
Thanks for all the good input. I guess if the A3 book is ment for the beginnner then thats probably where I should start. The Shay also sounds good ,but, the A3 seems to be pionted more to my experiance level. Does the A3 give good advice on silver soldering and tricks to forming metal tanks , body sections and such?
Thanks
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Post by Harlock on Sept 13, 2009 3:28:53 GMT -5
The A3 book also covers silver soldering, sheet metal forming, etc. yes, pretty much everything you need to know. The one thing that is missing is how to build the center test indicator / wiggler that he has you use to center up the journal boxes and other square parts in a four jaw chuck. The instructions for that are found in the New Shay book. If I didn't know Kozo better, I'd think it was a way to get people to buy both books, but I am sure it was because they had to keep the length down to something reasonable so some things got left out.
Perhaps one of us should do up a fresh drawing of the thing that is a little different so as not to infringe upon the copyright.
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Post by daveb1 on Sept 13, 2009 7:25:52 GMT -5
The instructions for the wiggler are in the original shay book
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Post by leeharrysouth on Sept 13, 2009 10:37:48 GMT -5
Thanks. I think I will invest in the A3 book even if its use will be a little down road. I need something give me modeling tipps. Seems to be the way to go. I am now building Bob Shores Silver Angel IC engine. Nothing as intence as a train but, baybe a good start.
Thanks
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Post by Harlock on Sept 14, 2009 0:11:39 GMT -5
Thanks. I think I will invest in the A3 book even if its use will be a little down road. I need something give me modeling tipps. Seems to be the way to go. I am now building Bob Shores Silver Angel IC engine. Nothing as intence as a train but, baybe a good start. Thanks A lot of people also have the A3 and/or New Shay book for that reason - a general reference. Basically, if you want to know how to make any particular part on a locomotive or stationary engine, you can look and see how Kozo does it and you'll have one decent method for manufacturing it without a casting or with special tools. --Mike
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Post by leeharrysouth on Sept 15, 2009 7:45:40 GMT -5
I orderd bothe the A3 and the New Shay books yesterday. I should get them toward the end of the week. Looking foreward to it.
lee
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Post by leeharrysouth on Sept 21, 2009 20:12:21 GMT -5
Hi all. Today I got my two Kozo Hiraoka books via UPS. I must say, I am very impressed and happy with my purchace. I got the A-3 and Buildiing the New Shay. Only problem I have run into is the A-3 for beginners refers one to Building the Shay for instructions on making Kozo's wiggler. The Building the New Shay book shows the wiggler in use on page 39 but gives no instructions on it's manufacture. Can anyone tell me if it Is on a page in the Building the New Shay Book that I have not found. I hope I dont have to buy the original Shay book to get the instructions. Is there another resorse out there I can get this info from.
Thanks leeharrysouth
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Post by gearedloco on Sept 21, 2009 23:08:55 GMT -5
The center-finder is simple. It's simply a length of stiff (piano) wire with a point on each end. It's flexibly mounted to a piece of steel that will fit in your tool post, the mount being close to one end.
The carriage and cross slide are moved to place the shorter end in a pop-mark on the item to be centered which is mounted in the 4-jaw chuck. Rotating the chuck makes the long end swing around, the amount of swing is proportional to the offset of the workpiece, magnified by the difference in length of the ends of the pointer.
The original article used a sphere sitting in a hollow for the pivot. A kit is available from someone, but I don't recall who. There are many other ways of skinning that particular cat - I seem to remember reading that someone used a blob of rubber cement to form the pivot.
Absolute precision in the pivot is not necessary - your just looking to see how much the long end wiggles.
I expect the above explanation will either reveal all, or confuse you to the point that you'll never figure out how to make and use one even if you get the book!
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Post by dgehricke on Jan 1, 2010 15:36:41 GMT -5
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Post by mike44 on Feb 18, 2019 20:24:42 GMT -5
The instructions for the wiggler are in the original shay book There is a much simpler way to find the center and possibly more accurate. I use this method often. Put a 60° point on a round stock 8" or so long and 3/8" to 1/2" diameter. Then using a spotting drill to dimple the other end. Now use a center drill to get the 60° bore you need for the TS center (tail stock). Place part in the 4 jaw, move the tail stock up to the chuck ,adjust the jaws til the center of the part touches the TS center. Snug the jaws, install dial indicator on the tool holder. My indicator is bolted to a round stock threaded about an inch so I can use the indicator on the tool holder. Adjust the 4 jaw til the readings are the same on opposite sides of the chuck. The part is very close to center, maybe if your lucky it's perfectly centered now. If you are having problems centering parts on the 4 jaw try this method. The TS center brought up to the part will get you very close to begin with. Mark your chuck 1-2-3-4 at each scroll. Move indicator up to part at #1 . Record this measurement and zero the indicator. Turn chuck til #3 is up. If the indicator shows NO MOVEMENT , then touch the indicator to the part til the indicator moves slightly and make this zero. Go back to #1 , now you will get a reading, lets say the difference .024. Divide 24 in half and you get .012 . Turn the chuck slowly til .012 is at the pointer . This is the new zero, turn the dial til it reads zero. Turn chuck til it is either on #1 or #3 and adjust the jaws with two wrenches til the indicator reads zero. Now if the indicator DOES show a reading then record the difference as previously mentioned. Lets say it shows a difference of .009 . .0045 is half. Turn chuck til .0045 is at pointer and makes this zero by turning the dial. Repeat previous instruction. Now chuck #1 and #3 are done , Repeat with #2 and #4. This is easier done than said. When you have the chuck at #1 & #3 you actually are adjusting #2 & #4 . Same when #2  are up you are actually adjusting #1 & #3. Might sound confusing , try it and you will get good at centering a 4 jaw. mike
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